So, over at EnglishLearning some kid was going around saying that most speakers
Sep. 18th, 2026 11:00 am"speak and read at a 6th grade level, which is about the same as an IQ of 70"
Literally all of that is wrong, but what I said is that reading levels are not very scientific. And then he comes back and says "I agree they're arbitrary, but..."
Yeah, no, kid, they're not arbitrary, they're bullshit, and I can prove it. Let's take a look at this representative sample of AR ranked books:
( Read more... )
There are a few different reading level systems, their methodologies are all suspect, and none of them line up with each other at all. You can't even compare books and say "if book A is harder than book B on this system then all systems will rank A as harder than B" because they won't.
You see this sometimes at /r/whatsthatbook too - people will look for a book and say "Well, it's a third grade book" or "it's a tenth grade book". It's, honey, no. Books are not that finely grained that we can sort them by grade level.
I'm willing to believe that you can very broadly divide books - and literacy, I guess - into bands of "nonreader/functionally illiterate", "elementary", "middle school", "high school", "college", and "post-graduate". But you're going to have to make some judgment calls to do so, and if you don't explain your methodology then it is garbage.
And people don't have any concept of what they're talking about when they say things like "oh, Americans read on a sixth grade level". Like, what does that mean? What do they think that means? They can't tell you, and they're astonishingly ignorant of the fact that if you're saying something like this you ought to be able to tell us what you mean! That, I think, is a far sharper indictment of their education and critical thinking than whatever reading level we're assigning them and their literature to.
(And he is a kid - I keep forgetting. I need to put him on ignore, because he's very argumentative and while normally I'm all for a nice, rousing internet argument it's just not fair to pull it on an actual high schooler. I'm just better at it than he is. I'm better at a lot of things than he is, like assessing the information I've been given. And it's not that he's a particularly stupid or ignorant person - in fact, judging from what he's said I'm fairly confident that he thinks he's pretty smart, academically speaking - but I've got three decades on him.)
Literally all of that is wrong, but what I said is that reading levels are not very scientific. And then he comes back and says "I agree they're arbitrary, but..."
Yeah, no, kid, they're not arbitrary, they're bullshit, and I can prove it. Let's take a look at this representative sample of AR ranked books:
( Read more... )
There are a few different reading level systems, their methodologies are all suspect, and none of them line up with each other at all. You can't even compare books and say "if book A is harder than book B on this system then all systems will rank A as harder than B" because they won't.
You see this sometimes at /r/whatsthatbook too - people will look for a book and say "Well, it's a third grade book" or "it's a tenth grade book". It's, honey, no. Books are not that finely grained that we can sort them by grade level.
I'm willing to believe that you can very broadly divide books - and literacy, I guess - into bands of "nonreader/functionally illiterate", "elementary", "middle school", "high school", "college", and "post-graduate". But you're going to have to make some judgment calls to do so, and if you don't explain your methodology then it is garbage.
And people don't have any concept of what they're talking about when they say things like "oh, Americans read on a sixth grade level". Like, what does that mean? What do they think that means? They can't tell you, and they're astonishingly ignorant of the fact that if you're saying something like this you ought to be able to tell us what you mean! That, I think, is a far sharper indictment of their education and critical thinking than whatever reading level we're assigning them and their literature to.
(And he is a kid - I keep forgetting. I need to put him on ignore, because he's very argumentative and while normally I'm all for a nice, rousing internet argument it's just not fair to pull it on an actual high schooler. I'm just better at it than he is. I'm better at a lot of things than he is, like assessing the information I've been given. And it's not that he's a particularly stupid or ignorant person - in fact, judging from what he's said I'm fairly confident that he thinks he's pretty smart, academically speaking - but I've got three decades on him.)